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Avoid Bellucci Guitars – Mangore.com

By Blog, Customer Feedback, Player's Corner No Comments

This post has been taken from our old blog, read user submitted comments at the bottom!

I will state it for the record, this is not a pleasant post.  I speak my mind clearly.  Some call it name calling.  Renato is a liar.  Why would I say anything different?  He’s a crook.  Again, why would I say anything different?  It is clear he does not know how to build a guitar or what actually makes a “good” classical guitar.   Again, why would I say anything different?   This is based on my own experience, with him and his awful work.  Not hearsay.  Personal and professional experience. I am a known expert in this small world of classical guitar.  I have restored, finished and repaired over 125 classical guitars of exquisite quality and provenance.  I do not count Renato Bellucci’s work in this count (they are not of any quality whatsoever).  I have put thousands upon thousands of guitars in players’ hands.  This ability is predicated upon my knowledge, experience and the integrity of the man that I am and the highly regarded reputation of my gallery.   I know of what I speak.  You’ve been told, you’ve been warned!  Again and again, people do not heed my warnings.  I am tired of it, of him, and his ridiculous work.  Read on, but again, the language is not pleasant.

Bellucci Guitars

In the past, I have done work on Bellucci Guitars – yes, the wholly crooked seller and purveyor of low end, Walmart quality classical guitars down in Paraguay.

No, Rich, tell me how you really feel? OK, since you ask.

Renato calls me in April of 2011 begging me to take down a 2 page review and photographs of one of his guitars, numbered in the 600’s mind you, where I detailed the problems, the fixes, the photographs, and so on. I was on vacation at the time, told him this, but he continued to plead with me, taking time away from my family.

The guitars that I’ve inspected of his, the work that was done, what can I say…It was horrible. But you’re thinking that’s a one off problem. Say nay. I’ve inspected over 30 of his instruments. I have repaired 9 of them. I think I know of that which I speak. Well, I tell him to offer an unconditional money back guarantee, at least to his North American clients and I will take the pages down. After hemming and hawing, he in fact posts a suitable refund policy. I told him to keep it consistent or I’m throwing the pages back up. A month later, I get an email from a client who tells me his refund policy has reverted to his old ways. I said, okie dokie, and put the pages back up after verifying his refund policy.

Listen, I don’t have anything to gain by hammering this liar. If anything, it is probably hurtful to me. So why do it? They are really that bad, they can be a bit expensive costing anywhere from $2200USD to $8000USD (why would you spend this kind of money with anyone of a questionable reputation), and he really hurts people with the time and energy they spend on hoping for a great guitar and then being massively disappointed. You are not going to get a good instrument. It does not matter if Ana or Sharon or any other player is trying one of these instruments. Did they switch guitars? Are they now playing a Bellucci? Seriously?

Please avoid his guitars. They are too inexpensive to be of any quality, yet they are expensive enough that the throwing away of your hard earned money is going to hurt you. He DOES NOT know how to build a guitar. His men do not know how to build a guitar. He uses green woods, not suitable for building. He over finishes them. The woods cannot breathe. He uses incorrect frets (honestly, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve found mandolin frets on his classical guitars). He doesn’t understand neck angles, set angles, heck, he doesn’t even get how to setup a guitar, nuts, saddle, whatever. Come on…SERIOUSLY. How many friggin’ guitars do you have to build to get it? 700 guitars later (maybe more) should do it, but no…it does not.

Look on his site at the Finish Section. And I quote, “You’ll read a lot of nonsense regarding the type of finish that best sutes a classical guitar…..It is essential that you know that the type of finish will not make any difference whatsoever on the type of sound your guitar will produce. All finishes elevate the pitch of the instrument a little (most people will not notice the difference). The finish was first introduced to bring out the grain in the woods and offer some type of protection against the elements. The most luxurious type of finish today is Polyurethane. It is also the most laborious. It requires a lot of space, air compressors, protective gear to apply and luthiers willing to do a lot of sanding and clean up work. This is the main reason why most European and US builders will try to convince guitar buyers that French polish is better, bla bla… It is not ! It is easy to apply and requires little or no infrastructure and practically no space to work and, since most US and European workshops are small, it fits Northern hemisphere builders to perfection. French polish offers very little or no protection at all.

OK, so first of all, French Polish is easy to apply? Bluntly, I do not need to say another thing. Mother of the Gods, this is as uninformed as it gets. Ah, but 15 coats of thick Home Depot quality Water Based Polyurethane is the way to go? Seriously? hehehehe….moron. Clearly it is better to choke the woods, inside and outside, attempting to cover up your incompetence and your green woods with Polyurethane, rather than use a tried and true method of finishing.  But, your guitar will be nice and shiny!!!  Very poor judgment with an attempt to justify with incorrect and inexperienced knowledge.  Here’s the truth.  French Polishing is a very difficult and time consuming process, one that can take years to master, truly master.  Renato does not have that kind of time or experience and neither do his employees.  He has no interest in betterment of any kind.  Only in stealing your hard earned money.

French Polish offers little to no protection?? Renato, you’re not supposed to play jacks and marbles on your guitar.  I suppose that allowing the wood to resonate with an ancient method used through the centuries on fine instruments all over the world is pointless when you are attempting to hide your own incompetence in building, wood selection and or finishing.

Better yet, if you dare to complain or not like the guitar he sent you, his compelling and excellent level of customer service is to call you an insulting, inconsiderate liar and to block your emails as a spammer.

Update for November 2014 – I couldn’t take it anymore.  I posted photos of a finish repair, setup, headstock peeling, back peeling, nut and saddle adjustments, and that ridiculous violin tie block.  You can see the sheen of the finish, it’s so thick, and the peeling of the back, cracking etc.  Horrible…see photos below.

OH, and those positive reviews he posts. Please. A good friend of mine took a chance on one of his guitar, unknowingly. Steve wrote back to complain numerous times. Renato then proceeded to change the words of this email to a positive spin. Steve was amused. I was not.

Bottom line is you’ve been warned. Buy from a reputable dealer or builder. Yes, it probably costs more, but at least you’ll have a gorgeous guitar with recourse attached to it. Now, I won’t post the pages again regarding the repairs on Bellucci, but I’ll send them to you if you ask. I also stopped working on them, as they were a colossal pain in the ass. Scraping tons of finish off of them, prepping them properly, and still with their problems because the woods seemed to be harvested the day he started building the damn things. I will not repair them. No one else in their right mind would repair them and quite frankly, you shouldn’t be buying one of these things.  See photos below for a typical example.

By the way, I write this simply because I still get emails requesting refinishing and repairs of these god awful guitars (if you can call them that). I will NOT work on them any longer, so please don’t write.

I also get HATE mail because of the unhappiness of people regarding their Bellucci (mangore.com) They write to complain to me because Renato insults them and I get the emails as a venting point? Well, I guess it’s understandable. You have no recourse. He’s in Paraguay for the love of the gods!!! I feel bad for the waste of time and money and the emotional energy spent by people trying to negotiate with Renato. He will disregard you after a certain point, especially if you decided to talk back to him about his guitars, he will simply keep your funds, or charge you $400 or more to send his guitar back to him. Only to not have him be able to fix it because he’s the moron who built it in the first place? REALLY? LOL

Last check, his Refund Policy is that he has none. You can get another guitar from him, but forget about getting your money back. Not going to happen.

I feel it is my responsibility to warn people that they are throwing hard earned money away.

After all this explanation, someone questioned my motives? Oh, he’s just trying to direct you to his shop. Of course, I would rather you did business with me. At least I have a REFUND Policy. But please, do not come to my shop. I beg you to not call me if you are considering a Bellucci Guitar. Please feel free to go to one of my esteemed colleagues or luthiers in the business. At least you will have the chance to get the majority of your money back if you are unhappy with your purchase. THAT is exactly how it should be and no other way.

You will not be so lucky if you buy from Renato Bellucci and mangore.com

OK, rant is done. You’ve been warned. Thanks for listening and heed my words. By the way, and I’ve said this before….Renato Bellucci is welcome to debate any of this with me in a public forum for the entire guitar world to witness. It will be my pleasure. I guarantee you, it won’t be his.

Listed under Bellucci Guitar problems – Mangore guitar reviews – Renato Bellucci – Belluci Guitar reviews

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Additionally, I have been receiving emails and reports about some “other” eBay seller who offers “luthier built” classical guitars for around $500, disrespecting the work of master luthiers as a whole.  Nice…making friends and influencing people.  If you’re looking for a Brazilian Rosewood classical guitar for $500 or 600, hehehehe, go right ahead and buy from this type of seller.  Please don’t call me.  I don’t want your business.  If this simple sentiment is over your head, we’re good.  We have nothing in common, I have nothing to offer you.

Tonewoods matter, the solidity of said woods matter (versus laminate backs and sides?), the use of those woods by a master matter, the decades of accumulated knowledge, training and experience matter, the finish matters, the workmanship matters, the musicality and timbre of the instrument matter.   The fact that hundreds of hours by one man or woman went into this guitar matters very much.  The longevity of the instrument, its quality, its presence in your hands matter so very much.  For anyone to so blithely disrespect these efforts is beyond comment.  I have nothing further to add.

_____

Photos of one of the last repairs for a guitar numbered in the late 600’s by Renato Bellucci, African Blackwood or so he says?  Look at the cracking, the incredible amounts of polyurethane, the peeling, and so on.  African Blackwood…yeah, the middle strip maybe.  The rest is dyed rosewood.  See some User comments after the photos.

bellucci_1051 bellucci_1050 bellucci_1098 bellucci_1090 bellucci_1089 bellucci_1056 bellucci_1055 bellucci_1054 bellucci_1053 bellucci_1052

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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User Comments:

stevenmward

Submitted on 2013/09/28 at 3:09 am

I read your two warning posts about Bellucci guitars. This is so sad, both because he seems like such a nice guy, a solid family man and a decent classical player, and also because he has used his charm to unfairly deal with his customers, leaving them in the lurch.

His guitars are beautiful but as I am now understanding, it is because the are embalmed! His use of an indented cutaway is is a great idea though he was not the first to make an indented cutaway. It certainly doesn’t matter if in the end the guitar is inferior, and all the worse of it is intentional… very said indeed, especially for his customers.

I wonder what Ana Vidovic and Sharon Isbin have to say, or if they even know. He blatantly uses them with car salesman deft, leaving hanging in the air the implication that they approve of his guitars as concert quality musical instruments.

Renato of course is a player, a one-time very good concert player and still may be so. But he just pays a number of south american luthiers to build guitars and one must understand that his workers are under his thumb and build what and how Renato dictates to keep food on their table. Don’t blame them as their only alternative to for them and their families to go hungry. I know firsthand as I as much south american as I am north american. How embarrassing!

While saddened to learn of the details, especially for Renato’s clients (victims of poor quality, bait and switch, and worse).

Steven

daniel morales

Submitted on 2013/08/25 at 10:27 am

First of all thank you for letting everyone know about this scam artist! I may have been a victim as well however, I did research and found out Bellucci’s terrible guitars. Thanks to everyone taking the time to let others know! I recently sent a message to Mr. Bellucci about his business practices, etc. he seems to love the attention. I can tell you for now he has NO intention of changing his ways! He will keep conning buyers and take their money-what a shame. He does not have remorse and he is going to continue this behavior. I blocked his e-mails as SPAM so I won’t get the “back & forth” communication with him-he seems to enjoy keeping it up. In Spanish or English-does not matter! Anyone reading this who is thinking of purchasing one of these trash-heaps listen to Savage Guitars & others. Do not do it! You will be throwing your hard earned money down the commode! Sincerely, Daniel Morales.

garyberg

Submitted on 2013/05/01 at 1:43 pm

I told you about my having bought a guitar from this guy a few months ago. You told me not to waste another nickel on it, and you were right as can be. I sent it to a luthier recommended by my former teacher, Jeff Van. He was able to make it playable, but it has pathetic tone quality, and he warned me that it would likely break down before long, based on his careful inspection.

Lesson learned.

tecklow

Submitted on 2013/04/15 at 2:10 am

Hi Richard, I am sorry I found your post too late. I got caught. In less than a year the bridge broke. Took it to Spanish luthier in Perth WA, who replaced a bridge for A$450. The bad news is he said that the neck is bowed so badly I cannot play frets past the twelth as the strings are too high. For him to fix the neck it will cost another A$750.

His opinion is the guitar looks nice but it is so badly designed and the sound for a $4000 guitar is so disappointing.

jimmyz1972

Submitted on 2012/12/23 at 7:38 pm

Thanks a bunch, he was on my list of considering to purchase, i knew something seemed funny , thank you.

Robert Vincent Luthier – San Diego – Reviews

By Blog, Customer Feedback, Latest From Rich 3 Comments

Hi Everyone, I just got back from Cancun after a long needed vacation on April 5, 2018.  I was pleasantly surprised by 2 reviews of Rob Vincent and his work, one from last year and just recently.  I post them as is without further commentary.  Thank you all!

Robert Vincent Classical Guitar #175-R 2017 Spruce EIRW

Robert Vincent Classical Guitar #175-R 2017 Spruce EIRW

Rob Glownia  

Rich, thanks for all of your help and patience finding the right guitar for me . Sorry for taking so long for the review. The Robert Vincent 175R just keeps sounding better and better each day. The guitar is so well balanced with such a full sound it is really hard to put it down. When I play it , it sounds like it’s singing back to me. I can go on and on but I won’t. I’m sure you get the picture. I talked to Robert Vincent and asked him to lower the action a bit, he was so informative and friendly and told me to ship the guitar to him, and I did. With no charge Robert did some tweaking and tuned the guitar up for me . When I received the guitar it was silky sweet. I don’t think I will ever let this one go. Thanks again for all of your help, and I would definitely advise anyone looking for a classical guitar to try one of his.

Matt Barber – March 9, 2017

I have Robert’s #171-R which I bought from Rich in November. It’s a wonderful guitar. I drove down to Rich’s with a very nice Hauser style guitar by a very good builder, (which after trading to Rich, he sold within a week) and a guitar built in Valencia in 1957, which had the Spanish sound I wanted, but has some flaws, which I still have). This guitar by Robert has that Spanish sound, which he knows and has been able to capture. What does that mean? I can only explain it by how I try to interpret music with a guitar. I want to sculpt the phrases, the phrases are statements, as a person singing. With Robert’s guitar, changing timbre doesn’t just modify the voice, it creates a new voice, like the alto entering from stage left – where did that come from and how did they break my heart? Many good guitars have beautiful voices which you can modify by timbre and dynamic, but a great spanish type guitar like this makes each variation something new, it’s uncanny. My guitar teacher, who is 69 and has made a career of teaching, seen and heard many fine guitars, old and new, he plays and has recorded with an 1928 Esteso loves this guitar, and thinks Robert one of the best builders of this generation. I don’t have his experience, but it is a great guitar. Robert has vision, he knows what the sound should be and has been able to express it in each guitar. (another student has a cedar top – very nice). The material and workmanship are stunning, this guy is the real deal.


Robert Vincent Classical Guitar #171-R 2016 Spruce

Robert Vincent Classical Guitar #171-R 2016 Spruce

Please see all of our offerings from Robert Vincent – he is truly a dedicated and talented luthier, one of the sweetest guys you will ever meet.

 

Kenny Hill Performance Classical Guitar #3897 Cedar Double Top with Lattice Bracing

Kenny Hill Performance Classical Guitar 7/8th size 630mm in Cedar Review

By Blog, Customer Feedback No Comments
Kenny Hill Performance Classical Guitar #3897 Cedar Double Top with Lattice Bracing

Kenny Hill Performance Classical Guitar #3897 Cedar Double Top with Lattice Bracing

Todd is a great guy who took a shot and purchased a Kenny Hill Performance Classical Guitar #3897 which is a 7/8th size 630mm in Cedar.  I know it’s a great guitar, but you have to play it to understand to truly get it.

——–
On 1/14/2016 8:10 PM, todds1112000 wrote:
Rich,
      The Hill arrived Tuesday at 10AM in perfect condition. I must admit you live up to your claim of taking care of your customers. The shipping…the extra accesseries…the emails and tracking etc…has definitely made this the best online guitar purchase of my life. Thank you so much for being one of the few good guys remaining on this planet. As far as the guitar is concerned…it’s a dandy. First double top I ever played. The response is amazing. At first I wasn’t so sure but it seems to be growing on me. It’s definitely different than anything I’ve ever played.
   On another note…about 2 weeks ago I purchased your Solo Works Vol. 1 because I liked the music you play on your guitar demos. This is another positive about you. The recordings are the most accurate sounding of anyone. Most places offer no sound demos to actually hear what you’re supposed to buy. You end up on you tube watching some idiot that can’t actually play a guitar recording it on his cell phone. Usually in his bedroom that looks like a teenager lives in it. Cordoba has good recordings also. The Tavi guy that performs them is awesome. Anyway….the song Diana’s Playtime in tab isn’t in your book I bought. It’s listed on the back cover…SCGT_1050…I tried to purchase it along with the guitar but when I entered the numbers in the search it showed not found. Is it available for purchase?
                              Thanks for the wonderful experience,
                                                   Todd
2015 Maxwell Sipe Classical Guitar Cedar EIRW

2015 Max Sipe Cedar Classical Guitar Review by Beat Pfluger

By Blog, Customer Feedback, Uncategorized No Comments

Here is a wonderful email from Beat Pfluger of Switzerland.  He ordered numerous accessories and books besides the gorgeous 2015 Max Sipe Cedar classical guitar from our shop.  It took a day to put together, but it would seem, we did good and Beat is very happy.  Max builds a sweet guitar.  Beat loves it.  What more can you say…Awesome!

———–

2015 Maxwell Sipe Classical Guitar Cedar EIRW

2015 Maxwell Sipe Classical Guitar Cedar EIRW

Hi Rich,

now it is already more than three and a half week i got the Maxwell Sipe Cedar Guitar
from you, time to give you a feedback.

I would be very excited when I opened the box and case and saw the guitar for the first time
in a perfect condition. It became immediately clear i had Christmas already on Dec 9! 🙂
What a beautiful and amazing guitar!  A REAL GEM!! The last 10 days i had the time to play
a lot on it, it made me very addicitve. I love to play on this guitar than ever before on any
other instrument.

I’m very grateful that i could buy this guitar (and luckily nobody else picked it before…) so
I would like to thank you. Thank you that you offer such great instruments which makes
people a lot of joy! Thank you too for the Music you are writing and arranging. I am very
fond of your style how you play and compose. And thank you for taking your time and
handling my order and questions in a smooth and easy way!

I still listen many times a day the pieces you play with the Maxwell Sipe 2015 Cedar and 2014
Spruce. Thank you for sharing the information about the Sor Op. 35 no 17 D Major.
Are the first part (0.00-1.23 min.) and last part (5.00-5.26) of your playing on the MS Cedar
(151021-max-sipe-cedar-2015) and the one on the MS Spruce (140209-max-sipe-2014-spruce)
your own compositions? What are the names of this pieces? I fear this pieces (and others, easy
playing ones) are not available as sheet Music, or i am wrong? Please let me know…
Otherwise i have to listen many many times and figure it out by myself how to play ;)…..

Rich, I would like to wish you and your Family a happy new year. I hope you were able to take
a break from your work too to relax and spend some time with your relatives.
Wish you good health and good luck in 2016!

Sincerely,
Beat Pfluger

David Pace 2013/5 Review by Andre J

By Blog, Customer Feedback No Comments
David Pace Classical Guitar 2013/5 - Cedar w/EIRW

David Pace
Classical Guitar 2013/5
Cedar w/EIRW

This kind email was sent by André from Canada regarding his new David Pace classical guitar:

Dear Mister Savage,

The guitar is safely in its new home.

I want to thank you for your kind attention, and also for all the hard work you’ve put into your business. Your website is in my opinion the standard toward which your competitors should strive.

It surely comes as no surprise to you that the instrument far exceeds my expectations. Pieces I’ve struggled with for years are now within easy reach (I’m accustomed to a stubborn 660+ scale Kazuo Yairi c. 1970), and the wide spectrum of tone colours offered by this guitar makes the effort infinitely more rewarding.

At 59, it’s a distinct pleasure to feel that inviting new roads can present themselves, and I’m grateful for the part you’ve played.

By the way, the U.S. destination we used (CBI) was very helpful. I recommend it to any of your Canadian customers who find themselves in similar circumstances.

Thank you for the bag of goodies as well, it is most thoughtful.

Yours fondly,

Andre J.

Eric and his 2014 Max Sipe Spruce EIRW

By Blog, Customer Feedback No Comments
Eric is a really nice gent, where we were able to figure out a trade for him that worked out well for both of us.  He found a great guitar from Max Sipe that fit the bill of expression and musicality with excellent projection.  His gracious note is below.
—–
Rich,
I received the guitar today.  I love the smell of spruce.   Thanks so much for this trade.  The guitar is fantastic and think it will only get better with some playing time.  The care package is awesome too.  Thanks again.
Eric

Eric M. Carlin, MM

Guitar Instructor at Mansfield University and Nazareth College/Nazareth Community Music Program
Max Sipe 2014 Classical Guitar Spruce w/EIRW

Max Sipe
2014 Classical Guitar
Spruce w/EIRW

Customer Feedback – Hill Performance Spruce 640mm

By Blog, Customer Feedback, Uncategorized No Comments

A very nice note from a wonderful gent from California, who is thoroughly enjoying his Kenny Hill Performance Classical Guitar #3848 which is a Spruce w/EIRW and a 640mm scale length – Please see my other Hill Performance Series Classical Guitars

——-

Kenny Hill Performance Classical Guitar #3848 Spruce 640mm

Kenny Hill Performance
Classical Guitar #3848
Spruce 640mm

Rich,
I just wanted to let you know that this beautiful instrument made the cross country
trip completely intact, and, in a timely manner as you had promised. I had a medical
emergency with my wife, so I didn’t get to pick it up until today, but it was well worth
the extra wait. It is exactly what I was looking for in every way, and I can now make another
check mark on my “bucket list”. I’m sure I’ll get years of enjoyment from this guitar. Heck,
I had a hard time putting it down to write this note!
On a little aside, about 12 years ago I ordered a Taylor 512ce with a wider (7/8″) nut on the
neck. Since this was not standard issue, I had to wait a few weeks for that option. Upon
inspection, I found out that the “born on” date from the serial # happened to be on my
birthday July 9. I always took that as a good omen, and have enjoyed that guitar whenever
I play it. When I unpacked the Kenny Hill, I found the warranty registration card in the
case compartment listing the specifications, including the completion date…if you can
believe it, 7-9-14. What are the chances!
By the way, your “extras” package is outstanding: humidifier, tuner, strings, nail buffer, etc.
This is beyond the call, but nice icing on the cake, that shows that you know how much a
purchase of a fine instrument like this really means to guys like me.

Thanks again for the professional service. I will not hesitate to use you again if the opportunity
arises, and Savage Classical Guitars will receive my highest recommendation.

Rich Hunter
Duarte, CA

Please see my other Hill Performance Series Classical Guitars

Classical Guitar by Kenny Hill Signature

Kenny Hill Signature Classical Guitar #3803 Cedar 650mm

By Customer Feedback No Comments

A wonderful email from a really nice gent in Illinois, after receiving his amazing Kenny Hill Signature Classical Guitar #3803

——-

Classical Guitar by Kenny Hill SignatureHi Rich,

The guitar arrived this morning and I let it warm up for a while before opening the case to welcome her into our home. I just finished playing an hour of Bach (Lute Suite #1 in Em) and I think I am in love. Not only is it a beautifully crafted instrument (gorgeous eye candy), it really sings! Plenty of volume, beautiful tone, incredible sustain, bell-like highs and deep, rich basses.

It was worth the wait…

Thanks, as well, for all the extras you threw in there! Nice to have an Oasis humidifier, the arm sleeve, tuner, some strings. This was a great and unexpected little touch and I appreciate that you did that.

Looking forward to many years making beautiful music with this.

Best,

Ed